Lost 3.22 & 23- Through the Looking Glass (Jack-centric)
Wow, well, that was the last one of the year. No more lost until 2008! But let’s talk about what happened this year. So many questions!!!!
1. Is Christian Shepherd alive? Jack kept telling people to contact him.
2. Is the future unavoidable? Jack kept telling Kate in the end that they need to go back.
3. Who was in the casket? my guess is Locke. He died poor, hence the bad funeral home. He didn’t have any family or friends.
4. Was Ben right? they didn’t all die, but things certainly didn’t seem to work out for Jack.
5. what happens with the boat? It appears that the writers have now brought in the outside world into the picture. Where will this take us.
More questions to follow, but that should direct the conversation. Can we make it last until January?
Doug said,
May 24, 2007 at 7:16 am
Are you moderating all comments? Mine doesn’t seem to be posted.
Doug said,
May 24, 2007 at 7:18 am
Wow, the show could now be renamed Lost Horizon.
We sat for a long time in silence, and then talked again of Conway as I remembered him, boyish and gifted and full of charm, and of the war that had altered him, and of so many mysteries of time and age and of the mind, and of the little Manchu who had been “most old,” and of the strange ultimate dream of Blue Moon. “Do you think he will ever find it?” I asked. (James Hilton, Lost Horizon)
Why was Jack talking about his father as being alive? Was Jack still employed by the hospital in that future, or were they just tolerating him? Was Jack delusional enough to think he could perform surgery? (Did you see how much his hands were shaking while he was holding the woman’s chart?)
I would vote for Locke being in the coffin, but it could have been Sawyer. Of course, Sawyer could have been with Kate by that time, but I don’t see much prospect for them long-term. Why would Locke end up in Los Angeles? Why, if he didn’t want to leave, would Locke agree to leave the island? It’s not like you can force someone to be rescued.
Speaking of Sawyer – Wow! He seemed to have no purpose in life, and also seemed to be not very pleased with being a killer. How dark his self-perception has become. Very real.
Can anyone explain why Charlie was such a flipping idiot? He could have (1) run out and shut the door from the outside, (2) swam out the window to the surface. (It’s also *not* possible that the only way to shut down the jamming equipment was via the keypad.)
Other unanswered questions:
Why didn’t Rousseau kill Ben?
Why didn’t Jack kill Ben?
Why didn’t Kate kill Ben?
Why didn’t Alex kill Ben?
Why didn’t the entire group kill Ben?
And … Hurley rules!
ehudadams said,
May 24, 2007 at 8:37 am
the only way to shut and lock the door was from the inside. You could notice that when charlie was tied up in the chair and the two girls were in the room.
there has not been an episode with as many outright cheer moments. we all cheered when the first two explosions went off, when Hurley plowed through in the VW, when Jack beat the snot out of Ben, when Sayid broke that fools neck with his legs, and when Danielle punched out Ben and then just stood there like everything was normal.
oh, and I’d like to point out that the VW bus episode now has significance. A lot of people were saying how it added nothing to the show and how they didn’t like it. But you have to be patiend and see how it adds to the show as a whole.
Doug said,
May 24, 2007 at 10:19 am
I need to watch that scene again, but if the door opened inward, then the water pressure would keep it closed. I’ll still contend that Charlie didn’t have to sacrifice himself, even if he had to lock the door frmo that side.
The VW bus was great. I actually thought that epsisode wasn’t bad, especially as it provided some noteworthy character development, and we have been introduced to more elements from it, like who the decreased driver was and how the bus got there. Poetic justice, perhaps – Ben’s plan is completely thwarted by the use of the van he killed his father in. (The only worthless episode I’ve seen was Paulo and what’s-her-name.)
I agree with the cheering. Nichelle, in particular, liked the neck-snapping.
Can nothing stop Mikhael the Cyclops? Ben just gets creepier and creepier. Of course, now more and more people are seeing the “Ben the killer” side. We also learned that other people are willing to take Ben’s word on Jacob, so there must be much more than Ben just scamming them.
I am waiting for a literary comment from BMT about the Lost Horizon parallel …
I doubt we can discuss it until January, but there’s a lot to think about, especially Penny and the other other others – whoever was on Naomi’s boat. It’s too bad the psychologist was killed. I would expect to see some real problems from PTSD and other symptoms from the intense stress the Losties are all living under.
BethsMomToo said,
May 24, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Good one, Doug, thinking of Lost Horizon. I haven’t read it in years, so I can’t remember the details as well as you do. I’ll have to give it a “reread”. You get points for the literary tie-in of course…and it was a good one! I’m convinced that the writers have steeped themselves in all sorts of literature as they have been developing their story.
Beth and I think that somehow the “flash forward” was meant for Jack to see and that when the show returns, the ending will change They WON’T be saved. Jack will see the wisdom of what Locke is trying to tell him. The next question was “How far back will they go?” It could be a matter of just changing the very end OR maybe it will go back far enough to change Charlie’s fate.
Mikhail – OK…now we know the guy is unkillable. It was one thing to survive the fence…he SAID it was because it wasn’t turned up all the way. Apparently THAT’S not true. It seems that Mikhail wants to keep the fact that he can’t be killed a secret, which is why he told Ben the fence wasn’t turned up all the way. But being shot with a harpoon gun was a definite kill…though not apparently for him. Which leads me to believe his woman friend may also be unkillable, which is why he was willing to shoot her. She may turn up again.
Who’s in the casket? Beth and I thought either Locke or Juliet. Someone Jack cared about but the others would have written off.
We loved that Hurley saved the day and Beth has decided if she ever goes hiking, she’d pick Sayid to go with her. Highly reliable. We were greatly disappointed in Bernard. He was even willing to put his wife in danger to save their skins! Jin and Sayid knew they were probably on a suicide mission…it must not have occurred to Bernard!
Naomi – what’s her connection? She had a picture of Desmond/Odysseus and Penelope and said she was there looking for Desmond, but Penny disavowed any connection. Could it be her FATHER who is behind the search?
In the “fore” story, why did Jack become such a loser? He didn’t have anyone left to rescue? He didn’t stay on the island long enough to fulfill the time he needed to reach his redemption? Maybe there will never BE a rescue. Maybe it will end with them deciding to LIVE on the island with Locke (and Ben conveniently will die).
Moral of the story…always tell the truth or no one will believe you when you do. [Did you get that, Benry?]
Doug Wilcox said,
May 24, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Ben could have avoided a lot of killing and his own beating if he’d just explained why contacting the ship was such a bad idea. (It’s not like the Losties are neofundamentalists.)
BTW, once again Jack proves himself to be a poor leader. Sending a couple of volunteers back for reconnaisance after they heard only two explosions was unquestionably the right thing to do, even if he wanted everyone else up at the tower.
(I read approximately 20 years ago. I guess I enjoyed it! I just got it in hardcover, too, from a library sale.)
Sayid would be a great hiking buddy, although he doesn’t talk very much. I would have picked Locke not too long ago; he is an excellent teacher. It’s easier to pick people who I woudn’t want to hike with, such as Charlie.
ehudadams said,
May 24, 2007 at 1:53 pm
1. the person in the casket was the person in the obit that Jack was reading. according to the obit, the name begins with ‘J’ and ends in something like ‘tham’. check out losteastereggs.blogspot.com for more on that. The guy was also from NY and hung himself in his apartment. so that seems to rule out anyone that we know of right now. we’re sure to see more characters in the future, now that the boat has been hailed.
2. I don’t think that Jack will be given the choice of making a different decision. i think that this plot twist is to bring in the outside world. Season one: the island. Season two- the hatch; season three- others-ville: season four- the new people and their boat?
3. here’s an interesting theory that was on the message board that I frequent: when the others let Michael and Walt go, they got off, but the boat off the coast found them. That boat is run by Dharma people looking to come back and set things straight. ben didn’t want that to happen, had tried to make dharma think that things were still going along, but eventually cut off communication through the looking glass, so as to erase the possibility that they had to communicate.
4. do we think that the future is so bad because Jack went downhill? it seemed like Kate turned out ok and fine.
Doug Wilcox said,
May 25, 2007 at 7:25 am
I heard second-hand yesterday that, indeed, Lost Horizon is one of the literary inspirations for “Lost.” Can anyone confirm or deny that?
I keep reminding myself how cleverly manipulative Ben is. It is quite possible that he wants the people from the boat to come and get the Losties off the island, or has some cross-purpose in mind.
But, Ben’s position of power is now severely eroded. If a rescue mission is pulled off, or even nearly successful, Jack will quickly regain some of the respect he lost.
I also see that the door in the Looking Glass station control room opened outward, so Charlie’s only option was to go out the window.
beth said,
May 25, 2007 at 7:34 am
The most frustrating scene is where Ben and Locke take turns trying to convince Jack not to make the call. They repeat saying “DON’T! DON’T! DON’T….” instead of explaining why they don’t want him to make the call. Communication men… communication….
Jen said,
May 26, 2007 at 6:59 pm
OK…this one hurt my brain!! but, here are a few thoughts
1. It was a girl in the casket wasn’t it? Didn’t the funeral director ask if he was a friend of hers or family? (or did I just think that?)
2. I think that Desmond is having a vision again and that he will stop Jack from making the call because he knows how bad things will turn out in the end.
3. Whoever Kate is with (sawyer) or anyone else she seemed afraid of him finding out that she was gone. Very nervous about it actually.
4. Were Naomi’s people really bad and we will find that out next year? Are they the same people as the ones in last years last episode in that artic somewhere??
5. Miguel is just a little weird! the whole one eye thing, not dying…all that. My thought is that HE is Jacob and Ben doesn’t know it. hmm…
6. Jack is having a little memory trouble. He is convinced that his dad is still alive. the people in the hospital must have to just be daling with him, they all know him and know his story, and are just workng with him to :get through this”
and
7. I am sure that there is more. But, really my brain is on overload from this one!
ehudadams said,
May 26, 2007 at 7:29 pm
Miguel…. hahaha… it’s Mikhail. wrong continent.
it wasn’t a girl in the casket. I actually think that it’s a rabbit trail. I don’t think we actually know the person yet, but he will be revealed in the upcoming seasons.
I think Desmond is done with his flashbacks. I really don’t think he’ll have anymore.
you know what’s awesome?! we’re only half way through the show!
BethsMomToo said,
May 27, 2007 at 12:39 pm
I’ve seen a blow up of the newspaper article. Tim was right – it’s a guy who hung himself in LA. And it’s not a name we know. So either it’s an alias OR it’s a character we haven’t met yet.
Yeah, I think now that Charlie is dead (?) and Desmond was whacked on the head again – that will be the end of his visions.
I feel pretty certain we saw an “alternate future”. It could take some time to find out for sure, though.
Penny was definitely involved in the monitoring of anomalies last year. Remember they called her and told her what they had seen? But she said she doesn’t have anything to do with the ship off the coast of the island.
Tim, be nice to the people who comment. You’re not too old for her to give you a whack! She’s a little more oriented to our south than to Russia these days.
BethsMomToo said,
May 27, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Oh…did you see that Jack was jumping from the 6th St. Bridge? 6th Street is where you took me, right?
ehudadams said,
May 27, 2007 at 6:20 pm
mom- that was 3rd street. there could be many 6th street bridges.
the thing that I don’t get is how Naomi got the picture of Desmond? that was why they thought it was Penny. just confusing.
Jen said,
May 30, 2007 at 5:47 am
maybe she bought the book at a second hand store and the pcture was in it! Have you ever done that? I have! so that could just be a total rabbit trail too.
Whoever is in the casket it was definitly something we will find out about next season. And what are we to do now with no LOST until 2008…why do they do this to us?
AND…TIM, I don’t make fun of your typo’s EVER!
Like your mom said, I am a little into the southern parts of the world these days!
Is MIKHAIL really dead? he seems to not die. l am wondering if that grenade just threw him back in the water, and perhaps softened the blow. hmm…
I think I need to go and pick up LOST horizon like I have the time for that… well, I guess I have until next year!
just don’t tell anyone that I will be reading it! I might be expected to do more reading! 
Doug Wilcox said,
May 30, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Jen:
If you need it, I have two paperback copies (maybe 3) of Lost Horizon I can give away.
I, too, expect to see Miguel (that was for Jen) again. He is quite indestructable.
BethsMomToo said,
May 31, 2007 at 9:39 am
Concerning the picture of Desmond and Penny in the book and Naomi saying she was there because she was looking for Desmond – that’s what made me think it could be Penny’s FATHER behind it.
Also – don’t loose track of the point that they have to somehow “save the world”. So what they do has great importance. Desmond is “special” and vital to saving the world. Now whether he already did that by punching the button every 108 minutes or hitting the failsafe button in the hatch or telling Charlie how he had to die or whether his contribution is yet future…we just don’t know yet.
Thoughts about why Charlie didn’t close the hatch from the OUTSIDE (you can see an outside lock in one of the screencaps…so he purposely locked it from the inside):
1. He wanted to save Desmond, who was trying to get into the room to see Penny on the screen
2. He knew he had to die in order for Claire and Aaron to be rescued – he purposely sacrificed himself
Speaking of “Fate” – I still find it interesting that the consequences of Charlie’s death increased every time Desmond saved him. Or was Desmond saving him part of Fate?
BethsMomToo said,
June 22, 2007 at 8:50 am
I finished rereading James Hilton’s “Lost Horizon”. I have to admit I didn’t find it as interesting a read as I did the first time I read it. It’s probably because my idea of “Paradise” and “eternal life” has since changed to a biblical POV. It’s also probably because modern advanced technology which allows satellites to see into your backyard makes the premise of an unknown Paradise anywhere on earth rather silly, in a way that it wouldn’t have been when the book was written in 1933, between the two World Wars. I can understand that Hilton worried about a coming “Dark Age” as the result of a looming 2nd World War, as he saw conditions in Europe building toward such a likelihood.
[Hilton may have been distrustful of the efficacy of the Treaty of Versailles ending WWI - many people were. Kissinger called the treaty a "brittle compromise agreement between American utopianism and European paranoia - too conditional to fulfill the dreams of the former, too tentative to alleviate the fears of the latter." And by 1933 Hitler had become the Chancellor of Germany and the Nazi party was growing rapidly.]
Hilton looked to the wrong source for deliverance, though. He repeats the Greek Stoic philosophical ideal when he writes, “Perhaps the exhaustion of the passions is the beginning of wisdom…”. In reality, we know that “The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.”
Nevertheless, I can certainly see the book has been one of the many influences upon the writers of LOST. My favorite quote referring to whether or not they were “imprisoned” at Shangri-La, and particularly appropriate to this season’s final episode, is:
“Are WE in the prison or are THEY (i.e. those living in the world)?” Hmmm….
For those of you who have recently read “Lost Horizon” or can remember it better than I was able to… Why did Conway change his mind so precipitously and decide to aid Mallinson? Unlike Conway, I never found Mallinson a sympathetic character.
I did like the hanging ending. If Conway did, indeed, make it back, then Shangri-La continued. If he didn’t, then all was lost… What a price to pay for helping one idiotic young twerp! [Mallinson was an annoying and selfish whiner and complainer, if you ask me.]